by Susan Fox
WE HAVE A COMMENT! From Bill S: "Let me try to comment without being deleted. It is a
matter of courtesy to respect the beliefs of others or the lack thereof. Your belief in a "one way ticket to Hell" is not held by all people. You should respect that and not apply judgments based on religion to homosexuals. It is rude and unfounded."
Dear Bill,
We are so happy that you found yourself at our blog. Welcome!
I see you are referring to a comment made by Anonymous, who said, "We care (about people who are practicing homosexuality), not primarily because society is promoting sin, but because the errant behavior and shaking their fists at God will get them a one-way ticket to Hell if they don't stop. We want all to come into a relationship with God through Christ." Anonymous was speaking about our article The LBGT Agenda.
First, let me say that we -- Lawrence and I -- have never identified anyone as going to hell. Really, Anonymous did not either. She or he was saying that if the behavior (homosexual acts) is un-repented and done with full knowledge that it is a serious sin and done in complete freedom, then such a soul might send himself or herself to hell. Anonymous was trying to say she wants everyone to go to heaven and that's why we care. At least that's the way I understood it, and the reason I published her comment.
So in that context let me say that we agree 100 percent with Pope Francis that we do not judge any individual involved in the gay lifestyle, and we trust that God will work all things to the good in each individual's life, whether gay or straight.
However, I do want to tell you that Jesus is not polite. So do not expect politeness from His followers. Jesus would not have been crucified if he was polite. They killed him because He clearly said He was God. They told Him to SHUT UP! Stop blaspheming, you are not God. But Jesus did not respect their beliefs and He told them the truth: "Before Abraham was, I AM." Predicting his own Resurrection, He said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." That's why the Pharisees put a guard on His tomb because they knew He had said that, and they feared his apostles would stage a resurrection.
Jesus told the Pharisees: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matt 23:27) So if I walked up to you, Bill, and said hey, "You are like a grave -- all nice and white tombstone topside, but with rotting flesh on the inside," wouldn't you think I was impolite?
Jesus also said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be members of his household." (Matt 10:34-36)
I agree that under the dictates of politeness we would not point out the Elephant in the Room -- that any sexual acts outside of fruitful marriage between a man and a woman, including contracepted acts within marriage, are an offense against God.
Why? God is Good. He made us in His image and likeness. Man is good except that he is broken due to original sin. So we cannot trust our instincts any longer because we retain the effects of original sin. We have an inclination to evil. Homosexual sex, masturbation, contracepted sex, bestiality -- I know all these things "feel" good, but they are not good.
God is very clear about His plan for the family. It's in the Book of Genesis. He made them male and female. A man shall leave his family and cling to his wife. Be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality is not in God's plan. Neither is having pleasure with one's wife while preventing conception from taking place. Both of these things are outside God's plan. It's not the way He set them up. And God is good. So the way He set things up is good. Everything else is not. Anything outside His plan is an offense against God, a sin if you want to call it that.
Satan apes God. The sexual act no matter how it is done creates the effect of euphoria and joy. You are a spiritual being so you bond with the person or animal with whom you have sex. God made a really great thing when He made sexual relations, but after He made it He taught us how to use it -- in the context of fruitful faithful marriage. And the reason He taught us how to use it is so we would be happy. He knew that using His goods of marital relations outside of marriage and the family would actually make us unhappy.
Now this unhappiness is not obvious to us because we have an inclination to disordered love. Look at Eve in the Garden of Eden. She is attracted to the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. She doesn't understand why she should obey God's edict not to eat of that fruit. So she eats it, a story replayed in the lives of all of her children -- mankind throughout history.
A man, not understanding why God asked us to be chaste, might taste of the fruit of relations with another man, and find it tastes good! He may think he loves the other man because of the natural gift that sex is. In fact, what is evil may actually appear to be very good to this man because God gave us the gift of sexual relations. God also gave us fire and alcohol, but the first used in the wrong context can burn you, and the second taken to excess can destroy your brain. We have to learn to use God's gifts appropriately.
It's true that Jesus said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." But He also said you could judge a
tree by its fruits. He is telling us not to look at individuals and say, "Oh, that person is good, that person is bad." But He is telling us to judge actions. For instance, maybe my mother acted very stingy. I saw all the harm caused by selfishness. So I decide I will try to be generous. Judge the tree by its fruits.
And so when I worked for the San Francisco Examiner, I was riding the elevator one day, and a young man who worked in the office was holding up a vile of ashes. I said, "Oh my, is that a human being?" And he said proudly, "Yes, this is my lover. I carry him everywhere." His lover had died of AIDs and the young man had the same disease.
At the United Nations, when I was lobbying for the pro-life cause, I told an East African woman this story from the San Francisco Examiner. My son, who was 12 at the time, was with me, and he was an example of the fruit of my relationship with my husband. I asked her, "Would you rather have a vile of ashes? Or this nice boy here?" Laughing so hard that tears were coming from her eyes, she said, "I pick the nice boy."
That women knew how to judge the fruit of the tree. God bless you Bill.
Susan Fox
Four articles on Bill's concerns regarding the Gay Agenda followed this one:
Part II: The Problem of Faith
Part III: Same Sex Attraction is not a Sin
Part IV: Homosexual Acts Do Hurt Others
Part V: Gay "marriage" to destroy Marriage
This led to a further dialogue: Is God punishing the United States?
WE HAVE A COMMENT! From Bill S: "Let me try to comment without being deleted. It is a
 |
| We have a comment! |
Dear Bill,
We are so happy that you found yourself at our blog. Welcome!
I see you are referring to a comment made by Anonymous, who said, "We care (about people who are practicing homosexuality), not primarily because society is promoting sin, but because the errant behavior and shaking their fists at God will get them a one-way ticket to Hell if they don't stop. We want all to come into a relationship with God through Christ." Anonymous was speaking about our article The LBGT Agenda.
First, let me say that we -- Lawrence and I -- have never identified anyone as going to hell. Really, Anonymous did not either. She or he was saying that if the behavior (homosexual acts) is un-repented and done with full knowledge that it is a serious sin and done in complete freedom, then such a soul might send himself or herself to hell. Anonymous was trying to say she wants everyone to go to heaven and that's why we care. At least that's the way I understood it, and the reason I published her comment.
So in that context let me say that we agree 100 percent with Pope Francis that we do not judge any individual involved in the gay lifestyle, and we trust that God will work all things to the good in each individual's life, whether gay or straight.
Jesus is not polite
However, I do want to tell you that Jesus is not polite. So do not expect politeness from His followers. Jesus would not have been crucified if he was polite. They killed him because He clearly said He was God. They told Him to SHUT UP! Stop blaspheming, you are not God. But Jesus did not respect their beliefs and He told them the truth: "Before Abraham was, I AM." Predicting his own Resurrection, He said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." That's why the Pharisees put a guard on His tomb because they knew He had said that, and they feared his apostles would stage a resurrection.
Jesus told the Pharisees: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matt 23:27) So if I walked up to you, Bill, and said hey, "You are like a grave -- all nice and white tombstone topside, but with rotting flesh on the inside," wouldn't you think I was impolite?
Jesus also said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be members of his household." (Matt 10:34-36)
The Elephant in the Room: Certain sexual acts are an offense against God
I agree that under the dictates of politeness we would not point out the Elephant in the Room -- that any sexual acts outside of fruitful marriage between a man and a woman, including contracepted acts within marriage, are an offense against God.
Why? God is Good. He made us in His image and likeness. Man is good except that he is broken due to original sin. So we cannot trust our instincts any longer because we retain the effects of original sin. We have an inclination to evil. Homosexual sex, masturbation, contracepted sex, bestiality -- I know all these things "feel" good, but they are not good.
God is very clear about His plan for the family. It's in the Book of Genesis. He made them male and female. A man shall leave his family and cling to his wife. Be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality is not in God's plan. Neither is having pleasure with one's wife while preventing conception from taking place. Both of these things are outside God's plan. It's not the way He set them up. And God is good. So the way He set things up is good. Everything else is not. Anything outside His plan is an offense against God, a sin if you want to call it that.
Satan apes God. The sexual act no matter how it is done creates the effect of euphoria and joy. You are a spiritual being so you bond with the person or animal with whom you have sex. God made a really great thing when He made sexual relations, but after He made it He taught us how to use it -- in the context of fruitful faithful marriage. And the reason He taught us how to use it is so we would be happy. He knew that using His goods of marital relations outside of marriage and the family would actually make us unhappy.
Now this unhappiness is not obvious to us because we have an inclination to disordered love. Look at Eve in the Garden of Eden. She is attracted to the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. She doesn't understand why she should obey God's edict not to eat of that fruit. So she eats it, a story replayed in the lives of all of her children -- mankind throughout history.
A man, not understanding why God asked us to be chaste, might taste of the fruit of relations with another man, and find it tastes good! He may think he loves the other man because of the natural gift that sex is. In fact, what is evil may actually appear to be very good to this man because God gave us the gift of sexual relations. God also gave us fire and alcohol, but the first used in the wrong context can burn you, and the second taken to excess can destroy your brain. We have to learn to use God's gifts appropriately.
Judge the Tree by its Fruits
It's true that Jesus said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." But He also said you could judge a
And so when I worked for the San Francisco Examiner, I was riding the elevator one day, and a young man who worked in the office was holding up a vile of ashes. I said, "Oh my, is that a human being?" And he said proudly, "Yes, this is my lover. I carry him everywhere." His lover had died of AIDs and the young man had the same disease.
At the United Nations, when I was lobbying for the pro-life cause, I told an East African woman this story from the San Francisco Examiner. My son, who was 12 at the time, was with me, and he was an example of the fruit of my relationship with my husband. I asked her, "Would you rather have a vile of ashes? Or this nice boy here?" Laughing so hard that tears were coming from her eyes, she said, "I pick the nice boy."
That women knew how to judge the fruit of the tree. God bless you Bill.
Susan Fox
Four articles on Bill's concerns regarding the Gay Agenda followed this one:
Part II: The Problem of Faith
Part III: Same Sex Attraction is not a Sin
Part IV: Homosexual Acts Do Hurt Others
Part V: Gay "marriage" to destroy Marriage
This led to a further dialogue: Is God punishing the United States?
Thank you Susan! Teresa
ReplyDeleteSusan,
ReplyDeleteI am impressed by both your faith and your writing skills. I have never read such a clear and concise summary of the biblical worldview.
My problem is that I find very little truthfulness in the Bible with the exception of maybe some historical accounts that are actually nonfiction. Most of it is fiction. Since the Western world has derived its entire sense of being from it, of course the Bible seems to be the essence of all truth to us. But is it really? I think the answer to that has got to be "No. It is not." This our disagreements about homosexuality and other issues. Does the Bible condemn homosexuality? Maybe in a handful of verses. Is it correct in its assessment of homosexuality? Probably not. The citations are just the personal opinions of the writers such as the author of Leviticus and Paul, both very human and fallible.
I am disappointed that you have chosen not to post and respond to my comment. I was hoping that you would be more open minded.
ReplyDeleteBill, I did publish all your comments in the subsequent article at the top of the page. They are sitting there now. Instead of publishing with the article you were commenting on, I published it in the next article "Welcome Bill II: The problem of faith. Susan Fox
ReplyDeletehttp://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com/2013/08/welcome-bill-ii-problem-with-faith.html