(Editor's Note, Bill and I have been discussing homosexuality and the problem of faith for the last few posts. So I encourage you to read Welcome Bill I LGBT Agenda II and Welcome Bill II The Problem of Faith, Welcome Bill III: Same Sex Attraction is not a Sin and Welcome Bill IV: No Man is an Island . Susan Fox)
"So unfortunately there are no private and personal matters that do not spill out into society and harm it." (Susan Fox)
Bill's Response: Even if that were really true, which it is not, there is nothing that you can do about it other than complain. You have no right to interfere with private and personal matters that are legal. And there are private and personal actions that the government has no right to make illegal.
You can't legislate morality. Even if we have more crime and social ills due to people abusing their freedom, the solution is not to eliminate that freedom for everyone. It is to eliminate the freedom for the offender. Denying all gays the right to marry because of the socially harmful acts of some gays is not what this country is all about. This country prides itself in its freedom and does not restrict that freedom to only those activities not deemed by the Catholic Church to be "sins".
Dear Bill,
We are getting close to an agreement! It's true I personally can do NOTHING to stop people from abusing their freedom. My only goal is to help form people in the image and likeness of Christ by sharing His viewpoint. It's their choice what they do with it!
Through your comments you have told me an awful lot about yourself. What a good man you are called to be! You have a great hunger for goodness and fair play. When you lectured me on courtesy, you showed that you value the virtue of gentleness and kindness, and you showed this virtue in many of your remarks.
When you said, "let me try to comment without being deleted," you showed you were a lover of truth because you anxiously wanted the truth to come out.
You obviously admire the virtue of faith because you mentioned you admired mine. Again, you showed regard for truth when you questioned whether the Bible is true.
Then you demonstrated your humanity by asking us reading this to acknowledge and accept same sex attracted people. I do accept such people. They are human beings deeply loved by our Father in heaven. They are His children, and in fact if someone has any flaws at all, they have more right to God's mercy than Miss Goody Two Shoes! (Do we know anyone like that?)
You exhibited an anxiety and concern for others in your question about personal acts being harmful or not harmful.
Now you ask me about the wedding between two men or two women. And this shows you are called to deep personal intimacy with God and with others. This is obviously something you desire, and don't we all?
When I was a little girl, a friend of my mother's gave me a beautiful blond doll. She had made the clothes and created a closet for them to rest in. I was a very spoiled little girl, and so when I saw the doll, I said, "I don't want a blond doll. I want a red head!" That poor elderly woman confronted by my selfish outburst and ingratitude, very humbly withdrew the gift and promised to change the hair color of the doll to red. She did so, but all the joy she might have gathered from my enthusiastic response drained away.
I recognized this. I was only four or five years old. And when she returned the same doll with red hair, I was horrified. What had been a very pretty doll was now ugly! I honestly never once in my life played with that doll.
So it is that as the active homosexual person seeks recognition and acceptance by the add-on of "marriage," he or she destroys the very thing they desire, that is the institution of marriage.
When my sister-in-law was preparing to become a Dominican nun, my husband and I took her on a trip to Williamsburg, VA. She was very annoying. She was totally in love with Jesus, so she wasn't much company. She reminded me of what Lawrence and I had been like when we were courting! Nobody could get in, we were just wrapped up in one another. My sister was being courted by Our Lord, and she was preparing to become His Bride!
I did door-to-door work with a short little nun in Washington State and at every door I introduced her as Jesus' bride. She was happy to be introduced in that manner, and even non-Catholic people were delighted to have Jesus' bride on their doorstep.
But should a Catholic nun, called to be a bride of Christ, turn her heart against the true teachings of her Divine Spouse given to the Catholic Church, she has destroyed her domestic bliss. She is like the shrewish wife rebelling against her husband's love. And that is a broken unhappy household.
Now married couples dedicated to life-long chastity -- sexual activity to be shared wholly in the context of married love -- model that intimacy that every soul is called to share with God. And their union is usually fruitful in a very physical way -- they have children. It's a little microcosm of the Holy Trinity: The Holy Spirit is the Love between the Father and Son.
And the Holy Spirit does not bear another Divine Person, but He makes Jesus Christ incarnate in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, confects Him in the Eucharist at the words of the priest in the Mass. Then with Mary's human help, He recreates the image of Christ in
the human heart.
The homosexual man or woman, longing for this Community of Persons to be active in his own life, naturally finds himself attracted to marriage. It's a beautiful estate. It models intimacy with God. But say the government says, "Okay, you can legally marry." Does anything change in his relationship with his gay partner? Not really. Everything is just the same. They may or may not be faithful to one another. Both partners' sexuality is identical. The driving reason for the marriage is to gain acceptance for their lifestyle. They may even adopt children with this goal in mind.
Now in a Catholic marriage a man and woman become one. That is their goal. In the Middle Ages, a married couple was allegorically displayed as a ball with four legs and four arms. They physically complement one another. Over time, two people find themselves serving the family and the world with one focus in mind -- to be the arms and legs of Jesus Christ. It is the only sacrament where two people bestow it on each other. With the Church's blessing on the union, there is grace to overcome selfishness, there is the openness to new life, and the excitement of anticipation that soon little persons with different personalities will be joining the family.
But what about when the state says gays can marry. What happens to the marriage of the man and woman? Suddenly, in society's eyes, their marriage doesn't exist anymore -- in a legal sense -- because it doesn't mean anything.
A father can marry his own son to guarantee inheritance. A woman can marry her dog. A man may marry five women at one time or a woman marry a woman and a man. And they can all get a quick divorce if their partner proves to be inconvenient. What happens to children in this case? They are cast aside with the spouse or spouses. They have no security.
Marriage has gone from the symbol of lifelong fidelity and fruitfulness to just another household of inconstant roommates. In fact, it is no longer marriage.
speech. She said,
"So unfortunately there are no private and personal matters that do not spill out into society and harm it." (Susan Fox)
Bill's Response: Even if that were really true, which it is not, there is nothing that you can do about it other than complain. You have no right to interfere with private and personal matters that are legal. And there are private and personal actions that the government has no right to make illegal.
You can't legislate morality. Even if we have more crime and social ills due to people abusing their freedom, the solution is not to eliminate that freedom for everyone. It is to eliminate the freedom for the offender. Denying all gays the right to marry because of the socially harmful acts of some gays is not what this country is all about. This country prides itself in its freedom and does not restrict that freedom to only those activities not deemed by the Catholic Church to be "sins".
Dear Bill,
We are getting close to an agreement! It's true I personally can do NOTHING to stop people from abusing their freedom. My only goal is to help form people in the image and likeness of Christ by sharing His viewpoint. It's their choice what they do with it!
You are Hungry for Goodness, Fair Play and Truth
Well Bill,Through your comments you have told me an awful lot about yourself. What a good man you are called to be! You have a great hunger for goodness and fair play. When you lectured me on courtesy, you showed that you value the virtue of gentleness and kindness, and you showed this virtue in many of your remarks.
When you said, "let me try to comment without being deleted," you showed you were a lover of truth because you anxiously wanted the truth to come out.
You obviously admire the virtue of faith because you mentioned you admired mine. Again, you showed regard for truth when you questioned whether the Bible is true.
Then you demonstrated your humanity by asking us reading this to acknowledge and accept same sex attracted people. I do accept such people. They are human beings deeply loved by our Father in heaven. They are His children, and in fact if someone has any flaws at all, they have more right to God's mercy than Miss Goody Two Shoes! (Do we know anyone like that?)
You exhibited an anxiety and concern for others in your question about personal acts being harmful or not harmful.
Now you ask me about the wedding between two men or two women. And this shows you are called to deep personal intimacy with God and with others. This is obviously something you desire, and don't we all?
Sometimes When We Reach for Something . . .
It's unfortunately part of the human condition that sometimes as we reach for something we want, we destroy it in the very act of reaching.When I was a little girl, a friend of my mother's gave me a beautiful blond doll. She had made the clothes and created a closet for them to rest in. I was a very spoiled little girl, and so when I saw the doll, I said, "I don't want a blond doll. I want a red head!" That poor elderly woman confronted by my selfish outburst and ingratitude, very humbly withdrew the gift and promised to change the hair color of the doll to red. She did so, but all the joy she might have gathered from my enthusiastic response drained away.
I recognized this. I was only four or five years old. And when she returned the same doll with red hair, I was horrified. What had been a very pretty doll was now ugly! I honestly never once in my life played with that doll.
So it is that as the active homosexual person seeks recognition and acceptance by the add-on of "marriage," he or she destroys the very thing they desire, that is the institution of marriage.
Priests' Celibacy Models Whole-Hearted Love of God
In the Catholic Church we have priests, who model the life of Christ by celibacy. They refrain from sexual activity their whole life long. Conformed to Christ, married to the Church, they become like a beacon to the rest of us, expressing wholehearted love of God, something we all want. But if the priest is unfaithful to this vocation, then all we see is a muddied brook.When my sister-in-law was preparing to become a Dominican nun, my husband and I took her on a trip to Williamsburg, VA. She was very annoying. She was totally in love with Jesus, so she wasn't much company. She reminded me of what Lawrence and I had been like when we were courting! Nobody could get in, we were just wrapped up in one another. My sister was being courted by Our Lord, and she was preparing to become His Bride!
I did door-to-door work with a short little nun in Washington State and at every door I introduced her as Jesus' bride. She was happy to be introduced in that manner, and even non-Catholic people were delighted to have Jesus' bride on their doorstep.
But should a Catholic nun, called to be a bride of Christ, turn her heart against the true teachings of her Divine Spouse given to the Catholic Church, she has destroyed her domestic bliss. She is like the shrewish wife rebelling against her husband's love. And that is a broken unhappy household.
Now married couples dedicated to life-long chastity -- sexual activity to be shared wholly in the context of married love -- model that intimacy that every soul is called to share with God. And their union is usually fruitful in a very physical way -- they have children. It's a little microcosm of the Holy Trinity: The Holy Spirit is the Love between the Father and Son.
And the Holy Spirit does not bear another Divine Person, but He makes Jesus Christ incarnate in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, confects Him in the Eucharist at the words of the priest in the Mass. Then with Mary's human help, He recreates the image of Christ in
The homosexual man or woman, longing for this Community of Persons to be active in his own life, naturally finds himself attracted to marriage. It's a beautiful estate. It models intimacy with God. But say the government says, "Okay, you can legally marry." Does anything change in his relationship with his gay partner? Not really. Everything is just the same. They may or may not be faithful to one another. Both partners' sexuality is identical. The driving reason for the marriage is to gain acceptance for their lifestyle. They may even adopt children with this goal in mind.
Now in a Catholic marriage a man and woman become one. That is their goal. In the Middle Ages, a married couple was allegorically displayed as a ball with four legs and four arms. They physically complement one another. Over time, two people find themselves serving the family and the world with one focus in mind -- to be the arms and legs of Jesus Christ. It is the only sacrament where two people bestow it on each other. With the Church's blessing on the union, there is grace to overcome selfishness, there is the openness to new life, and the excitement of anticipation that soon little persons with different personalities will be joining the family.
Marriage: a Household of Inconstant Roommates
But what about when the state says gays can marry. What happens to the marriage of the man and woman? Suddenly, in society's eyes, their marriage doesn't exist anymore -- in a legal sense -- because it doesn't mean anything. A father can marry his own son to guarantee inheritance. A woman can marry her dog. A man may marry five women at one time or a woman marry a woman and a man. And they can all get a quick divorce if their partner proves to be inconvenient. What happens to children in this case? They are cast aside with the spouse or spouses. They have no security.
Marriage has gone from the symbol of lifelong fidelity and fruitfulness to just another household of inconstant roommates. In fact, it is no longer marriage.
Lesbian Activist Agrees With Me
Lesbian Activist Masha Gessen confirmed this is the plan in a surprisingly honest 2012
- “I agree It’s a no-brainer that we (gays) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that's it's a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.”
- “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there. Because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change and it should change, and I don't think it should exist. I don't like taking part in creating fictions about my life. I have 3 kids who have 5 parents, and I don't see why they shouldn't have five parents legally. ” Then she goes through the elaborate way these five parents came together to make two different families with three children. And concludes, "I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality. And I don't think that's compatible with the institution of marriage."
So what happens to the more traditional lesbian or gay couple when they marry to gain acceptance, and then find that marriage is nothing more than a sham, nothing but a legal arrangement with numerous possible variables? Will they be disappointed?
You are right Bill. I do oppose gay "marriage." But not because some gays do bad things. I object to it because it will lead to the destruction of the family, the destruction of society, and the loss of freedom and economic prosperity in this country. But it already exists in 13 states and Washington, D.C.
Bill, every law legislates morality. A law that says you can't steal legislates morality. A law that says it's okay to kill your baby legislates morality. A law that says you can't shoot someone on the street legislates morality.
Now if you saw someone about to shoot a child on the street, and I started to intervene, would you shout at me, "Stop, Susan, you can't legislate morality!"
Bill, given the virtues you've shown that attract you, I don't think you'd say that!
God bless you. Susan Fox
